Muddy Waters

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Posts by Muddy Waters

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  49

  Dissenters in Watchtower History: Differing Departures

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm reading an excellent book about defectors from the mormon church called differing visions: dissenters in mormon history.

  through a collection of essays from many academic authors it looks at the life stories of dissenters and reasons for departure, as well as analysing the impact of their dissent on the church itself.

  fascinating stuff and makes me wish there was a similar volume looking at the key dissenters from jws/watchtower and the impact they had.

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  Muddy Waters

  Paul Grundy, jwfacts

  David Reed

  Duane Mugani (spelling?)
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  105

  New Watchtower Propaganda and hate speech destroying families (Feb 2016 WT)

  by Daniel1555 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is a paragraph from the new february study watchtower article "learn from jehovah's loyal servants.".

  7 a conflict of loyalties may arise when a close relative is disfellowshipped.

  for example, a sister named anne [1] received a telephone call from her disfellowshipped mother.

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  Muddy Waters

  I'll never forget what Ray Franz said in CoC - that they demand and take the most important resources of our lives -- our time, money, education, marriage mate choice, even having children (or not).

  And then we are held hostage by the manipulations of fear, obligation, and guilt (FOG).

  And the threat of being shunned.

  And baptism is the trigger which pulls the shun gun, and they are demanding that people pick up that gun more and more, with all its evil and hurtful consequences.

  They don't even know the point of the prodigal son story. At one of their own regional conventions, they highlighted a couple on stage who told their story of shunning their son, who came back into the "truth" because he MISSED HIS FAMILY. - No mention made of the son loving Jehovah.

  The WT knows this is a form of control and bondage to them and their "loving" organization.

  
  
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  63

  Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

  not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

  also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

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  Muddy Waters

  Baptism is the trigger that pulls the shun gun.

  Your son is being manipulated by very clever propagandists.

  Our daughter was was going through a rough time for awhile as a teenager, and a couple pioneer sisters took her under their wing. Unbeknownst to us, she was being "encouraged" by them to get baptized.

  The one sister told our daughter that baptism is a "PROTECTION" against wrongdoing BECAUSE OF THE THREAT OF BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED.

  This is not protection, this is coercion to the extreme!!!

  Imagine, being told that baptism can protect you from doing stupid things because your whole family and friends will never ever have anything to do with you again if you make decisions to do things they don't agree with, including having a doubt or question about the organization.

  My husband and I have started watching "Sons of Anarchy" on Netflix, and it is amazing how much a motorcycle club or gang is just like a cult. Once committed, it's for life, or pay the (usually very extreme) penalty. You have to give all to the club and their agenda or else. In SOA, they kill you. In WT-land, they "spiritually" kill you, or view you as dead.

  Remember, and tell this to your son, that baptism is the trigger that pulls the shun gun.

  It cannot be undone. The WT considers baptism as a contract. What legality allows a minor to enter into a lifelong contract?? Tell him you appreciate his zeal and desire to serve God, and he can still do this, but without getting baptized. Jesus was 30. There is no rush. Jehovah knows his heart. Baptism is a personal dedication between an individual and his God, and is a step that an adult should make - Just like Jesus did.

  Ask him if he think she is the same person he was when he was 5 years old, or 10 years old. Does he think he will still be the same person in another 5 or 10 years? There are so many things to learn and discover, and that includes personal development and growth too. If his desire to be baptized is still there when he is 18 or 21, at least he will be making an "adult" decision.

  -- also, in the Bible Teach book, there is a paragraph which says people do NOT get baptized into an organization, but into a relationship with Jehovah. Why, then, does one of the baptism questions ask you if you understand you are entering into a relationship with Jehovah AND his organization??

  I hope it all works out for you and your son....
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  63

  Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

  by Crazyguy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

  not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

  also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

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  Muddy Waters

  Does your son realize that his baptism is viewed as a "legal contract " by the bOrg? (If he should ever try to escape it or annul it).

  Does he remember that Jesus, of whom JWs are supposed to be footstep followers, was baptized at the age of 30????

  Does he appreciate that the WTS frowns on people marrying too young, fearing they may not be mature enough to enter into a lifelong relationship, which is to be taken very seriously??

  How then, can a child or youth make such a decision to be bonded to Jehovah "AND HIS ORGANIZATION" ( note that they are viewed as almost one and the same) if he isn't even mature enough in the Society's eyes to make a commitment to marriage????

  And never mind the example of young Samuel, as the JWs may try to argue -- it does not negate the above points.

  Also, do you not have any say in this matter as the child's father? Insist that your son wait until he is at least legal age before making such a decision as to baptism. If his commitment is genuine, it will stand the test of time.... (And the threat of disfellowshipment cannot be weaponized against him before that time! Your son need not be subjected to a "captive organization" while still a minor!)

  
  
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  43

  What are the things that wake people up from the Watchtower Corporation?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when i became an elder i saw the dark side.

  a side i previously believed couldn't possibly exist in the one true religion of the happiest people on earth.. then they rolled out 'overlapping generations(tm)' and that was the last straw.. all my life i had doubts but surpressed them thinking i was at fault and not the cult leaders.. it seems more likely that now the governing body are parading around like popes, wearing their expensive jewellery, that this will nauseate even dyed in the wool jws.. i wonder if the wake up can be condensed into main categories?.

  1. experiencing the cruel handling of matters by the wbt$ reps.. 2. crazy doctrine (eg.

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  Muddy Waters

  The Revelation book was such a doozy. Trumpet blasts from heaven being conventions and resolutions passed in the 1920's.

  The stinging scorpion tails being more of the same, only directed to the clergy of Christendom, who wailed and howled over "the truth".

  JWs themselves being the locust plague, and believing this foretold the great preaching work.

  And Jesus being the rider of the white horse, leading the four horses of the apocalypse.... I mean, Jesus...??? Leading the way in causing all sorts of pain and anguish to people? (So long as it's directed at "worldly" people, it's okay!!??!!??)

  bah!

  Yet I suppressed my doubts for a very long time. Other things culminated toward my waking up, the biggest being "My book of bible stories" (nightmares) for children, when I almost gave that book to my little grandchildren.
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  70

  Any funny stories of when a"brother" giving a talk, said something "funny" or "questionable", and didn't even realize it?

  by Dunedain in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  there were always all types of speakers in the org.

  myself, growing up a "witness", must have heard all types of talks, and given by all manner of speakers, especially on sundays, when almost every week we would get a "visiting" brother giving the public talk.. sometimes, you would have a "great" speaker, all fluent and animated.

  other times we would get a comical speaker, one who would maybe purposelly get a few laughs outta the audience.

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  Muddy Waters

  I remember a young elder on the platform encouraging people to do business territory, telling the congregation that we have so many little strip joints it would behoove us to take advantage of these opportunities.

  Except that he meant to say strip malls, lol.
  
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  31

  Pioneer Service School Videos

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first, i'd like to give a big thank you to the anonymous person who provided me the files.

  second, if you have the rest of the english videos, or anything else you would like to leak, please pm me.. download links in the descriptions and here.

  english:.

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  Muddy Waters

  Wow -- the very end of Lett's video-- (I may be paraphrasing somewhat, but the gist of it is like: "... We love you, the GB love you. Oh, and never doubt that Jehovah and Jesus love you too."
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  64

  Canada may get a new government today

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  the us elections suck up all the attention (and it's not even at the candidate selection stage!

  ) but canada actually has a national election today.. first results are starting to come in and so far it's all liberal party.. i think it's time harper and the conservatives got the boot.

  last premiere from the bush era.

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  Muddy Waters

  This is all so interesting to me yet clear as mud. I have had my head buried in the sand for so long as an indoctrinated JW-drone, that I never read anything about politics or community or world issues.... such an idiot. I was totally and thoroughly "politically neutral."

  Now, I want to know! I want to learn and find out things and know about these vital and important things, things which affect our country and impact our lives.

  It it will take me awhile, but finally I can "listen and learn" and not bury my head in the sand or walk out of a room any more whenever anybody starts speaking about politics.
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  19

  2015-2016-More BOEs just arrived!

  by Atlantis in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  these boes just arrived!.

  .. re: global assistance arrangement for the 2016 service year .

  http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/xnlm2ba.

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  Muddy Waters

  This is great! Thank you!

  ... thought this was "interesting" from the Kingdom Hall Information letter (especially Point #9)! Sounds eerily familiar.... ("Gotta problem? Never mind going through official channels, call the Branch FIRST!!)

  8. Safety law. The Health and Safety at Work (etc.) Act, 1974, does not apply to Kingdom Halls. Volunteers are not paid for any work done on the property, and no legal relationship is in- tended between volunteers and the trustees of the congregation. However, good safety practices should still be observed, and we view legal requirements as our minimum standard where they are relevant to our operations.

  9. There is no need to display any safety posters such as the Health and Safety Law poster, nor is there any need to report injuries to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) or prepare a health and safety policy. In the event of an accident, the branch office should be informed by means of an Incident Report (TO-5). You must display a “No Smoking” sign in the required format at the entrance.
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  22

  after 2 years, getting the courage to read COC. but is is still really relevant?

  by nowwhat? in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if so why?

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  Muddy Waters

  I believe it is very relevant! The book exposes how the GB evolved, changed, came to their spiritual "insights" and conlusions; it exposes blatant hypocrisy, inconsistencies, abuses of power, guessing at scriptural meanings, backstabbing, power struggles, doctrinal problems.... I make it sound a bit boring perhaps, but it is an honest and painful documentary...

  I agree with the above poster who said that if you are still afraid, you are still under their control.... But don't let that stop you! :) When I began reading the book, I was terrified and afraid too..... For many of us, it helped open our eyes and cement the view that the leaders of the organization were nothing more than arrogant, bumbling men trying to control other people's lives.